Hometown Hero Outdoors

Unyielding Spirit: Jason Stone's Journey from Navy Chief to Cancer Fighter

• Hometown Hero Outdoors • Season 2 • Episode 14

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What does a retired Navy Chief, a dedicated educator, a passionate writer, and a resilient cancer fighter have in common? They're all the facets of our extraordinary guest, Jason Stone. Jason's journey is nothing short of inspiring - a whirlwind of two decades in the Navy, a transition into teaching, and a recent battle against stage four prostate cancer. His story serves as a testament to human resilience, adaptability, and an unyielding spirit to learn and grow.

We kick off this episode with Jason's military tale that threads from his decision to join the Navy to his tenure as a nuclear machinist mate. He paints a vivid picture of life aboard a ballistic missile submarine, the unique rhythm of night shifts without sunlight, and the adrenaline of carrying 24 ICBMs onboard. The narrative doesn’t end there, though. Jason opens up about his shift from the Navy to a teaching role in Minnesota and his passion for writing. His love for learning and sharing knowledge shines through as he recounts his transition from the military to academia.

However, it's not all smooth sailing. Jason's recent fight against stage four prostate cancer takes center stage as he delivers a raw account of his diagnosis, treatment, and the emotional rollercoaster that follows. He doesn’t shy away from the fear, the waiting, and the toll it took on him. He takes us through his journey, shedding light on his coping strategies and his proactive approach towards mental health. Tune in for an enriching conversation that transcends military life, cancer battles, and personal growth, leaving you with pockets full of inspiration and newfound perspectives.

Produced by Phil Ewert Productions

Theme Music: Hero's Journey
Joel Loopez Tunepocket.com
Licensed by: Phil Ewert Productions

hometownherooutdoors.org

Speaker 1:

In the land of 10,000 lakes, a remarkable movement was born. Welcome to Hometown Hero Outdoors. We are dedicated to honoring our military service members, veterans and first responders by providing them with unforgettable outdoor recreational opportunities. We believe those who have served and sacrificed so much for our country and communities deserve a chance to reclaim their spirit and find healing in the great outdoors. This is Hometown Hero Outdoors. Welcome to the Hometown Hero Outdoors podcast. Here is your host, chris Taitro. Well greetings everyone. Welcome to this week's Hometown Hero Outdoors podcast. I'm Phil Ewert, media producer for HHO, filling in the host chair for this week's podcast. I'm joined this week by our special guest, jason Stone, retired Navy chief, as well as one of our board members for Hometown Hero Outdoors, andy Graff. Welcome everyone and thanks for joining us tonight. Guys, glad to be here.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, so I'm going to read through some of Jason's bio to get us started tonight. There's a lot going on here. This guy's lived a full life, and so I'll just get to reading it. Jason is a retired Navy chief with 20 years, 10 months and 20 days of submarine service under his belt. He worked in commercial nuclear power since 2009, starting off as an instructor at the Monticello Nuclear Plant in Minnesota, and it is now in Washington state where he works in the initial license class supervisor as excuse me, the initial class supervisor at the Columbia Generating Station. He also teaches thermodynamic courses as an adjunct instructor at the local college.

Speaker 1:

Jason has his Bachelor of Science in Nuclear Engineering Technology and a Masters of English and Creative Writing. He has a passion for learning and teaching. He got his general class Amateur Radio License in 2007. His pilot license in January 2008. He loves to write stories, make leather bags and wallets, builds fishing poles, helps people learn how to shoot better and loves board games.

Speaker 1:

I don't know how you have time, to be honest. Recently, though, jason started his own podcast called Prostate Cancer to Road to Recovery, documenting his journey with recent Stage 4 Advanced Prostate Cancer Diagnosis. So welcome, jason. Very happy to have you on the Hometown Hero Outdoors podcast and to get a little bit of your story. I met Jason, I want to say about 2011, when we used to be next door neighbors, jason and I lived next door to each other in Big Lake, minnesota. Over the years we went shooting together, spent a few nights around the bonfire, enjoying some cigars, maybe even a little scotch now, and then Jason moved from Minnesota in 2018. We've stayed in contact, so welcome Jason. I'd like to start us out tonight Having you tell us about your military service, why you chose to join the military, specifically the Navy, and then walk us through your military career, if you will.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, Thanks, Phil, I'd love to. I always wanted to fly and so and I had a girlfriend in high school I grew up in Pocatello, Idaho. I went to Pocke High School for anybody in Idaho watching and I wanted to join the Air Force, and so that's all. I just knew my entire life that's what I was going to do. I was going to join the Air Force and fly, and I remember going to the recruiting office there at the mall in Pocatello.

Speaker 2:

The Air Force office was closed and I was walking back down the hall in this guy in a white uniform with a big smile on his face. He said how can I help you? I said I don't think you can, so I'm trying to join the Air Force. And he said why do you want to join the Air Force? I said well, I want to fly, he goes. Well, why would you want to join the Air Force? I got really confused at that point. I was 17 years old. He started telling me stuff about well, the Navy has better pilots, the Navy has more planes, and this and that, and then he had me take this test. And then he had me take another test. The next thing I knew I joined the Go Submarines. I'm not quite sure how that happened.

Speaker 3:

A little bit opposite there Above water, below water, yeah.

Speaker 2:

You had your own experience with recruiters too.

Speaker 3:

Oh, absolutely. I know they can swindle you pretty good.

Speaker 2:

Yep, Sometimes you don't exactly know what you're getting in for. That's kind of how I started off, and that didn't necessarily know what I wanted to do other than fly. And then, once my career started in the Navy, I just kind of went along for the ride. They started saying stuff like well, in order to fly, you got to be an officer. In order to be an officer, there's better programs to be an officer. And so I kind of bit the whole thing cook line and sinker. Oddly enough, I later in my career ended up going to be a recruiter. I tried not to be that guy.

Speaker 3:

So what was your rate in the Navy? What job did you choose?

Speaker 2:

I was a nuclear machinist mate so I was the back aft on the on the nuke subs. It was a. It was a fun ride I had. I had a good time doing that. I did six and a half years on my first submarine, the USS Ohio. I did three years of recruiting duty down in San Diego and then I went up to, went out to Hawaii and I spent the rest of my career in Hawaii and that was awesome. Wow, I did back to back sea tours on with back to back Westpacks. I started off on the USS Tucson and then I went to the USS Chicago. I loved being a sea. I loved being on submarine. I loved being out there fixing stuff. I loved the mission and so I really got to do six years straight of sea duty and then I went to the Pearl.

Speaker 2:

Harbor Naval Shipyard there in Hawaii and I was able to dial it down a little bit. I was achieved by that point and I was able to kind of coast a little bit better, Teach a couple of my first classes to how to run the shop. I ran nuclear test equipment there in Hawaii and let them kind of take things and I got to go do other things best around in the in the chief's mess and went and got my pilot license. That was a. That was a bucket list item for my whole life and I was like I'm not leaving Hawaii till I do that. So yeah, I had a good time.

Speaker 2:

I got involved in emergency amateur radio clubs, so EARC out in Hawaii. That was a lot of fun. It was really interesting to get it involved and participating in drills with the community, with setting up the Oahu Races, r-e-c-e-s, getting involved in emergency communications, having a ham radio set up, and yeah, that was a lot of fun. I had a lot, had a good time in Hawaii. If they had a nuclear reactor I'd live there forever.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I've been to Hawaii a couple of times, just mostly just tourism. But yeah, it's, it's a nice place. I knew a bunch of sailors that were living in station out there, Because Nick Tams Pack, which I'm sure you've heard about, that's Naval Communications telework area master station, if I believe it's been a few years. Okay, and pack and Pacific. So I did, I did voice and data comms on my ship. My job was an IT but I was a radio man Right in the radio shack. So yeah, when you talk about you know the ham radios and stuff, it's kind of up my alley. It's kind of a little experience in that. But so yeah, I totally get it. Yet Nick Tams Pack there in Hawaii is a very big station for guys with my rate. So I know a lot of friends that went there and loved it.

Speaker 2:

So did you get your radio license outside?

Speaker 3:

I didn't. It's funny you say that. So I had a family member that was a chief of the Navy as well and he has his license and he's out near Virginia and he always is like you got to get it? You could get it. I probably could, because he wants to communicate with me. He's always shown me his setups and his antennas and all this stuff. I totally respect it, but you know, I just unfortunately don't have enough time to do that.

Speaker 2:

My motto is you can never have too many hobbies Exactly.

Speaker 3:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

So, jason, I want to reel you back just a little bit for some of our listeners who, like myself, are not super familiar with the Navy. You mentioned, I think, three different subs that you were on. What was the difference between those subs? Or were they all very similar? Besides being nuclear, was there? I mean size difference, capacity, mission style, I mean, what can you tell us about the difference in the ships?

Speaker 3:

Yes tall.

Speaker 2:

The difference is about 200 feet in length and a 10 feet diameter. So the first boat I was on the Ohio up out of Bangor, washington, was a missile boat. That was a ballistic missile submarine. They carried 24 ICBMs and we had about over a dozen of those boats on the east and west coast total at the time a dozen and a half and our goal was to go out, submerge and hide from the world for two to three months at a time, and so it was a pretty slow, easy going mission. We just go out, we submerge. It was a big old heavy boat and 18,000 tons submerged displacement and they just would go out and we'd train and run drills and, yeah, it was a pretty easy life.

Speaker 2:

They call it the hotel of submarines. What's interesting about those with 24 ICBMs? Each ICBM has multiple warheads on it, and so if that submarine, that one single submarine, went out in the middle of the ocean, surfaced and declared itself its own country, it would be the third most powerful nuclear-armed country in the world Just one of those, so only behind the United States. And so union.

Speaker 1:

That's a little crazy, it is right.

Speaker 2:

And to have more than a dozen of those running around.

Speaker 1:

So obviously, nuclear is actually very safe. It's very stable until it is set off, and that's also the same for power plants. They're incredibly safe until they're not, until they're not accurate. And but did that ever cross your mind? That you're basically, you know, sleeping feet away from 12 Nagasaki sized or larger bombs?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean it does at first, but the whole trick to being in the Navy, out to sea, is stay busy. You stay busy and you're trying to find something to do all the time and there's if you have any downtime, you're. You're feeling it on your own. I think that's kind of where my drive to constantly be doing something comes from. If I'm not busy in training, if I'm not cleaning, if I'm not fixing a valve, if I'm not troubleshooting some weird noise in a turbine generator, then I'm going to be reading, I'm going to be doing laundry, I'm going to be doing something I'm going to be doing, and so that.

Speaker 2:

And on a submarine you get, you're on a different schedule because we don't have the benefit of sunlight, daylight, right. So that's what governs your sleep time. On target sailors, no offense, and you know, as is a regular human being right now on land, that's what our day is based on. On the submarine it's not. So your body is naturally acclimated with lack of sunlight, to about an 18 hour day. So we would spend six hours on watch doing our, doing our job, taking logs, running equipment, and we'd spend six hours after watch, doing either training or after watch cleanup or maintenance or something like that.

Speaker 2:

And then, as long as there wasn't something else going on, we got six hours to ourselves to do laundry or shower, eat stuff like that, and so you generally get about four hours of sleep, three and a half four hours of sleep every eight out of every 18 hour rotation, and you get more. It feels like more days of the week go by. So it's it's kind of weird when you're underwater and deprived of sunlight.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So, andy, how does that compare to being on a, on a carrier? I mean, obviously you're, you see the sunlight, but I mean, does your? Work ship similar.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so what we did. So I worked nights, I was the night supervisor, I was the communication watch officer and basically our job, like we worked 12 hour shifts but then we'd have overlap and then when I was on watch, I was on watch 12 hours. I didn't get the free time, I didn't get the extra time for me it was I was the CWO, so I was in charge of all voice and data comms coming on off and on the ship. So it was a big job. You know, captain had a direct line to our shop. If there was ever an issue he'd call us directly because you know, obviously every everything comes out of our ship.

Speaker 3:

So we had an outage. It was a big deal but we would basically work. I'd work. I think it was like 6 pm to 6 am. I was my shift every day, but that was because I was stationed over in Japan and that that area, that was pretty much daytime in the United States. And then after that we'd have cleaning stations, which would be we do.

Speaker 3:

The whole ship was shut down operations for an hour unless we're doing real world stuff and we would clean. It called XO's happy hour, the whole ship. So it's 5000 sailors on a ship, 5000 people cleaning, and you know what it does get dirty. You wouldn't think it does, it sure does. So we do that. And then if we had a general quarters or drill training as a team, it would go basically from like seven to 10, 11. So now it's almost noon and you're ready, you're trying to get some food and I got to hit the rack and go right back at it.

Speaker 3:

So, and especially with my job, we had some, a lot of stuff we had to do before work. As far as, like, taking over the watch, because we do 12 hour watch rotations, sure, but yeah, so I would say we were right about that 16 hour day schedule. They try to give us eight hours off, but it never, never really Cue me. But when I worked nights I, like you, never saw the daylight.

Speaker 3:

I worked in a space. There's no windows. We were a TPI space, which means two person integrity, so I mean it wasn't free in and out, it was very who's coming in here we have an authorized list of who could be in the space. So there's no windows, there's no open doors, nothing, so very well secured. Once I sat down, I pretty much didn't leave for the day unless I had to make a quick head call, so it was kind of tough. I always like after my third deployment I figured out all my snacks. I needed to make it through Because otherwise I'm sending people down to the ship store. Because the carrier did have the benefit of Razz's, which is replenishment at sea. We did have a ship store that was operational but unlike you know, you sub guys you get down there and you may not get a Razz for a minute. So I give you respect there.

Speaker 1:

I didn't serve in the military. I was in law enforcement and I worked overnight, so I know what that's like, but I don't think I would have been cut out for being above or below the water, other than when I take my pontoon out fishing. So I want to change gears here a little bit. And, jason, you started. After your service, you went and started working in new plants. How did that come about?

Speaker 2:

Well, once again, I ended up doing something I didn't want her to do. I was going to be an operator out in Idaho and I interviewed for a job. It was a perfect job.

Speaker 2:

I wanted to get back home and they said yeah, we're going to send you an offer letter. It might take a couple of weeks. Hr's doing some restructuring. I was like, okay, awesome. They said we want to hire you, we want to hire you. All right, perfect. This is 2009.

Speaker 2:

The whole situation with getting jobs and stuff was pretty rough at that time Money and housing crisis and all that. So I was excited that I was going to come out of the Navy at that time with something. And a couple of weeks went by and I called them back, didn't have an offer, and they said, oh, just give it a couple more weeks. And this turned into a thing. And so a couple of months went by and I called a recruiter and I said, hey, I'm starting to get nervous, I'm getting cold feet.

Speaker 2:

I says I want to be an operator. I don't necessarily have to be around nuclear power, I'm just looking for a job where I'm turning wrenches. That's what I want to do. And she said, well, I've got this instructor job in Minnesota. I said there's two things wrong with that. And she said, well, call me back next week. And I called her back and then that turned into a thing and so this went on. We tag teamed for a few weeks, and then I finally said, hey, how big of a jerk would I be if I went and did this interview at this place I don't want to live to do on a job I don't want to do.

Speaker 2:

And she says, no, if you haven't had any job interviews, you should be doing this. You need the experience. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting, are they paying? And then she said, yeah, they'll fly you from Hawaii out to Minnesota. I was like, heck, yeah. So I flew out and I should have seen, I should have thought about this, right, I didn't realize at the time how I should be prepared, what I should do to be prepared for this interview for an instructor job. So I'm sitting there, we're waiting on one of the supervisors to come in, and the manager is chatting with me and he says well, what are you gonna present today? I said about what he said well, I mean, you're hiring for an instructor job. What are you gonna teach us? Well, what do you wanna know? Completely not prepared, right?

Speaker 2:

And he sat back, crossed his arms, started saying things like well, you're not ready for this, blah, blah, blah. At that moment I started fighting for a job I didn't want, in a place I didn't wanna live. I'm like, holy crap, I failed this job interview and it hasn't even started. And so I started asking some questions and he was very much like I was like what does it have to be about? Does it have to be technicals? Does it have to be nuclear? Do I need a PowerPoint? And he just kept not answering them and saying you don't wanna do this, you don't wanna do this, which makes sense, except that I had nothing to lose. So I was gonna do it. It didn't matter, I was gonna do this interview. And so he finally gave in. There was a whiteboard behind me in his office. I said as long as I can just use the whiteboard and start talking, I'm ready to go. And he's like okay, he says I'm not gonna give you another chance. This is it. I said, all right.

Speaker 2:

So I had just gotten my pilot license a year before, and so I had a bunch of stuff fresh in my head still and I knew that I was talking to nuclear people and so people that had degrees, engineering degrees even and so I didn't wanna hit the surface stuff, the stuff that you might learn pick up in high school or something. So I went for all the little nuggets of random things why is the engine offset so many degrees? Why, how does the propeller rotation direction impact all this stuff, and what is ground effect? And all these different little things. And so I started talking. I was drawing diagrams on the board behind me and talking through stuff and they started asking questions and all I had to do was present for 20 minutes so they could see whether or not I could teach, and I've never taught this is my first time really teaching, right, as I was a knuckle-dragger.

Speaker 2:

I was turning wrenches in the engine room and he's up there, they're asking me questions and they're asking me questions and finally he goes. He looked at his watch and he said, holy crap. He says we have to stop the interview. I panicked and he looked at the other guy and said well, we missed the other interview. So apparently they were supposed to. They missed an interview because I was teaching and they just got sucked right up into it. So we went for two and a half hours when oh, oh, oh.

Speaker 3:

Supposed to be 20 minutes, 20 minutes, oh jeez, I went two and a half hours.

Speaker 1:

That's crazy.

Speaker 2:

And we got done with the interview and he's like well, we're gonna send you an offer there.

Speaker 3:

In my head.

Speaker 2:

I'm like, okay, I know how this goes. And he said you know, hawaii's a big place, so I know you know. Everybody gets asked why? Oh, do you know so and so right. And it's an island with so many tens of thousands, of millions of people. And he says but I'm gonna ask do you remember, do you know a sailor? Cause? We hired a guy a year ago by this name and I was like truck and I heard around the corner truck piped up and said stone. So he came out, we hugged, I had no idea he was working there. And then I heard another guy.

Speaker 2:

He said Mike, you know another guy was working there and another guy knew from the Navy was working there, Mike, Huh, interesting. And then we're walking to go to lunch and I hear a voice from 20 years before, pulled right out of the old memory banks. I hear this voice. I'm like that sounded like my A-School class leader from back in 1989, 20 years ago. And they're like, well, it can't be. I'm like, well, is it? Unless it's this guy's name I'm not throwing names out here, I don't know if I should or shouldn't, but it's this guy's name and I'm like, well, that's our ops director. I'm like, oh yeah, I knew him. And so I suddenly all these people I knew, and yeah, so I thought about it. I went home and made a couple calls and decided you know what, maybe there's something to this. It was six months without an offer letter from Idaho. It had gone six months now. So I finally just took the hint and said I guess I'm not supposed to be doing that. I'm supposed to move to Big Lake, Minnesota, to be Phil's neighbor.

Speaker 1:

That you know what that's so funny about that story Cause I obviously, as long as I've known you, I haven't heard that entire story Is that I love the part where you said you were fighting for a job you didn't want in a place you didn't want to move, and then, you ended up winning the job. That's great. So, and obviously because you taught and you are an instructor, I assume that's how you then transitioned into teaching college classes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I got out here and now I was. I went from teaching out there in Minnesota to teaching out here and they have this like a pipeline program at the community college, the Columbia Basin College here, a nuclear technology pipeline for the community college. So kids coming out of high school can join in on these, take these classes and learn about the nuclear power plant. They can learn about advanced thermodynamics, facility components, all these different things, and they're taught by people that work in the industry. The Hanford Reservation out here is a huge area. We have PNL labs, we have what they call the tank farms, we've got the VIT plant, we've got the where I work, the Columbia Generating Station Nuclear Power Plant. There was the old test reactor that was out here. There's all kinds of stuff and $8 billion a year gets poured into the Hanford Reservation.

Speaker 2:

So there's tons of technology, tons of opportunities, tons of stuff going on out there and all these kids in the area are like well, I've heard there's good jobs, so the college has a path to get them into those jobs. And so they asked me hey, we need some help teaching one of these. And I started teaching like one night here, one night there, and then I took one whole class and then I took the next class and now I'm teaching a bunch. Like this quarter I'm teaching three classes, which is the most I've taught. It's a challenge juggling all that, but making it do, making do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, as you say, juggling, you said at the beginning that you can't, you believe you can't have enough hobbies, and I listed a few of yours. I want to touch on one of them which I think is pretty unique, and that's your writing hobby. Oh, okay, and so you, one of the times that you and I had spoken privately previous to this, you were working on writing some scripts for some things, and so how is that going? What are you writing?

Speaker 2:

So writing the script we talked about back then. I did finish and I did send it off to some I don't know, ink something or other, the ink farm or whatever these places where you can get movie scripts read, and it got a little bit of interest, but nobody. It was about a situation that happened on the Arsak rain where we ended up leaving a sailor in Korea and cause he got arrested.

Speaker 2:

And it was this whole drama thing and. But if you look at it from a production standpoint, hollywood doesn't want to make another big submarine Navy movie where there might be some bad light cast on the Navy right. There's this whole scandal out there called the Leonard. Oh, that was a fat Leonard, fat Leonard, the fat Leonard scandal.

Speaker 3:

My CO has mentioned that specifically in that, so I was fully involved in fat Leonard. Ouch yeah, if you haven't.

Speaker 2:

That's worth an interesting read. If you go to the Wikipedia page. So this was right in the middle of that time and there was some the reports from the sailor after he finally got out and released. There was a lot of corruption going on and bribery and some weird things he reported from his time in Korea and so I put this whole screenplay together about that.

Speaker 1:

But of course Hollywood's not going to make that, so well, but a unique experience that you wrote a screenplay after going through your masters in writing. I think that's interesting.

Speaker 2:

It was fun. I do a lot of short stories. I'm putting together a collection of short stories right now, my most recent story I actually started this. So, as you know the viewers may not know yet I've got a prostate cancer and so I just got diagnosed back in June, on June 27th, and within days of that I was doing this kind of mental holy crap is, if you go to Google and put in the you know stage four, bravo, aggressive, it's aggressive, it's metastasized. Already it's spread to my spine. You put those things into Google, it doesn't give you very positive outlooks.

Speaker 1:

Dr Google, you will die of a splinter.

Speaker 2:

Yep. So I'm like holy crap, if I've got a year, what am I going to do? What do I really want to do if I've got a year? And one of the things that came out of that self-evaluation was writing a story about my experience with cancer. So I started a story called the Tumor and I started it. It's a three-part story and I did the first two parts before I started my actual treatment, because there's a long time from diagnosis to treatment.

Speaker 2:

I was officially diagnosed June 27th of this year and I took my first pills for my first treatment on August 11th. Yeah, it's a scary weight too, when they tell you it's aggressive and then they make you wait. That's not fun.

Speaker 1:

And since we've now talked about the cancer, how did you obviously we'll talk later about how people can listen to your podcast series that you have, which is very, very informative about your journey, but for our audience, tell us about that initial diagnosis, how that happened, how you found out, and let's go from there.

Speaker 2:

So they put you in a room, they have you drop your pants, you're bend it over, not that You're talking about like, how did I find out I had?

Speaker 1:

I know about the test Us old guys. I don't know if Andy's had to have this.

Speaker 2:

Not yet.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, we've got the old oil check.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, that's not even the diagnosis, that's still just checking symptoms, right? The diagnosis is actually worse because it's a biopsy. They take core samples from your prostate and they go in through the same outdoor oh boy, through the wall into the prostate. They take 12 core samples. Feels like you're getting stapled right in the center of your core. But yeah, what sent me to the doctor is I was, I'm heavy guy, I'm a big guy, I'm six foot four, I'm really heavy and I'm trying to get back on the bike, trying to lose some weight, and I was just had some discomfort down there and I had a doctor visit coming up. So I mentioned it to the doctor visit and she's like well, let's do a PSA test. So she drew a PSA test and it came back just a little above four and she's like, well, that could be an infection or something.

Speaker 2:

So she says, let's wait a little while I'll give you, I'll put you on an antibiotic.

Speaker 2:

And so I went on an antibiotic for five weeks to prove flaxen or something, and came back in the sixth week, did another test and it came back six. And I was like, hmm, all right, now, what doc? She's like, well, I'm going to refer you to a urologist. And throughout that waiting time things started to get more uncomfortable down there and so I had our time sitting. You know, I started to notice changes in how hard it was to pee, how often I was going, stuff like that. And the urologist he got me and he said, ok, well, let's do another PSA test. And I'm like, holy crap. So we did another one and it came back even higher. It was in the upper sixes, and he's like, all right, now it's time for the biopsy and that's where they go in and they do the 12 core samples.

Speaker 1:

We'll return to the podcast in just a moment, but first hometown hero outdoors would like to thank the following companies that support HHO and our mission Relentless Defender, apparel and Gear, silencer, central Suppressors, best Defense Armory and Range in Forest Lake, minnesota, and Tito's Handmade Vodka. We thank them for their support. Now back to our podcast.

Speaker 2:

But, looking back, what I found is those symptoms I was having. I was rationalizing as one. I'm, at the time, 52 years old. I'm starting to get older. I'm starting to. I'm a supervisor of training, so I'm more sedentary now than I've ever been, and so I'm sitting on my butt. I've put on some weight. This is what's going to happen. This is what happens and this is what it feels like, and so I didn't get checked out earlier.

Speaker 2:

And the really sad thing about it, looking back, is back in 2017, I had a really good friend there in Monticello. He lived in Elk River, but we worked together at the Monticello plant. He passed away from prostate cancer. He found out when it was really late and they went after it really super aggressively. But there was just no hope for him and a bunch of us went and immediately got our PSAs tested.

Speaker 2:

So PSA is prostate specific antigens and what that is is the blood tests, All it is. They draw some blood and they check for these antigens in your blood and it says that there's all that tells you is there's something going on with your prostate, because if there's any trauma to your prostate whether it's cancer or an infection, or you got kicked or you're riding a bike, those levels go up. They release these antigens into your blood stream, and so mine came back 1.59. Now a normal male in their 40s at the time should have been 0.6 to 0.8. But before 2019, the standard was if it's below 4.0, they just tell you you're within range and you know, that's it. They don't tell you to monitor it. They don't tell you hey, it's slightly elevated, so you should do this every year. They didn't tell me anything.

Speaker 1:

So in 2017, you were possibly already slightly elevated Yep.

Speaker 2:

I likely had this prostate cancer growing since through 2017.

Speaker 2:

Wow, and because the doctor said, well, it's less than four, you're good to go. And that's what I want. One of the things I want to make sure biological males 40 years or older, every year, every September September prostate cancer awareness month go get your PSA tested, because what matters is the trend. Some men have PSAs that are normally 2, 3, 4, even. I know a guy in the prostate cancer support group on Facebook who's six. His he doesn't have cancer, he's fine, and his PSA is just six point something.

Speaker 2:

And so what's important is you do more than one test and you track that trend, and it's good to do that, like every year, every September, and as soon as it starts going up, you get with the urologist, you check it. Now, you're checking it every month and you're treating it before it breaks out of the prostate. Because what's happened since, from 2017 to now, is it's been growing, what's likely been growing, and eventually it just turned the corner and became aggressive, and that's where I started to have the symptoms. It broke out of the prostate, it's formed a primary, another tumor on my spine, on my L1 vertebrae, and once that happens, the prognosis changes significantly. In fact, if you catch it while your PSA is a little. While it's still contained in the prostate it's almost 100% curing, and once it breaks out of the prostate it's your palliative, not curative. And that's scary. I forgot what question I was answering. I started babbling there for a bit.

Speaker 1:

No, no, you're good. I wanted to make a comment that because you first told me about all this going on, I believe in August. Initially, I had a doctor visit coming up to get reevaluated for my life insurance and they did a PSA test and that was the first thing I checked and luckily, like I mentioned to you in a private conversation, is that mine was like 0.4 or 5, which is great.

Speaker 1:

It's really low and very, very happy to see that. But I tell you what it was definitely top of mind after our conversation and listening to what you've been going through, and so that's definitely something that I've been preaching as well as you just mentioned, that biological males above the age of 40 need to get it checked, and especially when you look at, as you also mentioned, that all men at some point, regardless of if they ever die of it or not, will probably have prostate cancer and most men don't die of it but will probably get it somehow before they die.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so I found that very interesting, and so it does keep it more top of mind, and so let's talk then about so, once you found out and, as you said, it metastasized into your L1, what was that like? I mean, you were waiting for treatment. What was that period of time like where you were between the diagnosis and a treatment plan?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was scared, I was worried. I started having dialogue at work like, hey, I don't know what's going to happen, I don't know what this looks like in the coming months. I started looking at what is my option to take some time off. Fortunately, I've got a really good job here and they let me take a couple months off. I'm actually going back to work tomorrow morning After two months off. I've been off since August 20, 8, 7, 6, 5, or 4th. August 24 was my last day. I'm going back tomorrow. So because my radiation treatment's done, and yeah that that time is.

Speaker 2:

That waiting really sucks, Because now it's now you know. Now you know you've got a tumor or multiple tumors, in my case growing and it's aggressive and they're they're working on scheduling this and they're scheduling that.

Speaker 2:

You're waiting for a call from this person and a call from that person and nothing seems to be happening fast enough. I wanted to just go straight in the next day and get zapped. I just chewed me with some radiation. I don't care, I'll give me some chemo pills, I'll take all of them. I wanted, I want to start dealing with this right away, and it was tough waiting.

Speaker 2:

So I channeled and that's where that short story I wrote the tumor. That's where that came from, as I started channeling all that frustration and fear into, because that's why, that's why I write. I write for emotional reasons, it's an outlet for me, it's therapeutic, and so is in talking about this. So that's also where so I was working on the short story and then I also had this idea of I'm going to start telling people. I want to let people know, because when I turned 40, nobody handed me a book and said here's, here's what you need to know about your prostate and how to, what to look for and what to check for and what it means. Yeah, there's, there's nothing out there. You know, my dad didn't know because he didn't experience any issues. I have an uncle that just went through prostate cancer or two years ago, and just you know people don't talk about it's an embarrassing thing to talk about, for one sure.

Speaker 2:

Fortunately I was in the Navy on submarine so I have no Boundaries. I'll tell anybody anything. So I want to buy up?

Speaker 1:

see, I'll tell you so I want to I want to bring that up as Giant some light on what is possibly one of the elephants in the room. That was my first initial thought when I first found out you worked on a nuclear submarine. You also worked at a nuclear plant, and so I already know the answer to this question. But I want you to answer is there a connection?

Speaker 2:

So there's no way to know, right? I don't think there is. We are really super safe. Andy will tell you. You probably were a TLD on so.

Speaker 3:

I only had to wear one when I went into the Spaces, but, yes, we were issued them. If we were ever and, like they said, a commercial flight gives you more radiation, then what connects to the radio or the reactor?

Speaker 2:

so, yeah, so I'm not concerned that that was what my Source was. I did have a week I spent in Abu Dhabi. That apparently was near a burn pit when it was active, and there's a Recent that's called the packed act. Va just came out with the packed act and they finally admitted the exposure to the air over in the Middle East during certain times is what they call a presumed condition for some cancers, and so Maybe that's it. I don't know, and that's the scary things. I'll never know.

Speaker 2:

What I do know is we, my doctor's really good, my radiation oncologist. He says, hey, let's find out that we can do this genetic test, find out number one if it's genetic, because that changes our course of treatment, and then, if it's not, we can still look at some genetic markers and maybe there's, there's some treatments that are better for some genetic markers. And so we did that. There was nothing special about my prostate cancer. It was just naturally occurring. It wasn't genetic, it's not family-based it's. It's just it just happened for some reason. So Externally caused, likely, but why I don't know.

Speaker 2:

But there's, we do so much, we had, we take so many precautions at work at the nuclear power plant and the Navy I got. Like Andy said, I got less radiation Underway on a submarine. Then my family did sitting in a, you know, sitting in the house in Hawaii on Volcanic lava, lava beds, concrete houses on near asphalt roadways all these things admit radio. You know, they have radioactive decay from the minerals at them, yep, and so now I don't think that was it, but I'll never know what I did do. I'm gonna, you know, you the right. What you should do is make the VA figure out. If they can figure out what it was, yeah, so I did submit a claim. I think the most telling thing is that week I spent in Abu Dhabi. So I had a little write-up on that and we'll see. We'll see what they say If they make a service connection grade. If they don't, then I'll just keep not knowing.

Speaker 1:

Now you mentioned that you just finished your treatments, so what's next?

Speaker 2:

well, sort of. So I'm on two different treatments. I was supposed to be on three. So when we did our the CT scans, they said you got it's in your prostate. It looks like it's broken out of your prostate in the local area and you've got this tumor on the L1 and you have something showing up, something lit up on the scan on your 11th rib on your left side. I'm like holy crap. So what we want to do is Androgen deprivation therapy, adt, along with radiation therapy, along with chemo. I'm like so what's the timeline? Oh, all three all at once. Like holy crap. So. But before my radiation oncologist, dr Brian Luinda fantastic doctor out here he said before we do all that, let's do one more scan. And it's a highly specialized, very expensive scan. The Navy covered, the VA covered it, fortunately, and it's called a PSMA PET scan and if it doesn't show up on that, it's not cancer. And so my rib didn't light up. So it was just my L1 and just the prostate. And so he said with that let's skip the chemo, let's just do the ADT and the radiation therapy. So I did 28 doses of radiation to my prostate and then I did five doses of radiation to my spine and Then that was all.

Speaker 2:

While I'm doing ADT, this, these drugs, and it's two drugs. It's called Zytiga and Lupron. So I get a Lupron shot once every three months. I'm two months into my. I got my first shot on August 21st and I took my first Zytiga pills on August 11th. And I do the pills every day. I do a thousand milligrams of Zytiga every day and then every three months I'll get this Lupron shot and that's. I'll be on that for at least a year. I think that's the worst part of all the treatments. Radiation treatment great, kill the cancer.

Speaker 2:

But the ADT, you know, because it's temporary, there's a start date, there's an end date and you're done with it. Adt is different. This is it's a little emotional for me, because you know when they give, when they castrate chemically, castrate like pedophiles and Rapists, they give them two drugs. They give them Zytiga and Lupron. So yeah, for them it's permanent. They have to take it the rest of their life, except that eventually your body figures out how to avoid it, and so your body. And so the reason you're doing those is prostate cancer is a hormone-fueled cancer.

Speaker 2:

It feeds off of testosterone. So if you know men who have low testosterone, right. That's a thing where you feel the fatigue and lethargic all the time. You don't have any energy, no motivation, your mood goes through the floor, you just feel like garbage and don't feel like doing anything and you feel like crying all the time.

Speaker 2:

And that's what they're going for with this is, they're trying to take my testosterone down to zero, and so I'm on that.

Speaker 2:

My PSA went from 10 at the last test to Because they did one right before I did the start of the treatment down to zero, down to four and then down to zero point eight, and I will get another test for about another three weeks, which is I'm in that fear phase again, like I don't actually know if this radiation therapy worked.

Speaker 2:

We're not going to do a scan and find out. All we're going to do is monitor my testosterone to make sure it stays at zero, and we're going to do that for another eight or ten months and then they'll look at my blood work and if I'm a candidate for coming off, they might wean me off of the adT, see if my testosterone comes back up and Then watch my PSA levels. So, as your testosterone comes back up, it should. Mine was 400 and something before all this started so pretty healthy for 50 something years old, not too bad and it was down to zero. Now it's, it's undetectable and so should start going back up. And as it goes up, my PSA is going to come back up. But my PSA should come up to like point six, point eight, maybe one point oh, and then stabilize and as long as my Testosterone rises to normal levels Well, almost normal.

Speaker 2:

It'll never go back to completely normal. My, but my, my PSA stays low, then that's showing that there's no active cancer. That's growing. As soon as I have active cancer, it's growing, my PSA will start to rise again, and so I'm just going to be. The rest of my life will be monitoring, holding my breath between PSA tests, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

So you obviously started a podcast and you wanted to talk about it, and I know part of the reason you wanted to talk about it was it was therapeutic for you. You want to tell us about your podcast, how you started that, why you started that and how it's going and where people can catch it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I was when the pandemic hit. I was teaching classes at the college and the pandemic hit, and then I had to start teaching from home. So I had to get a microphone, which I'm not using, but I had to get a microphone. I had to get a camera and a little setup. So I just set up a little something here in my craft room where I do my leather work and five million other hobbies, and so I had all this gear sitting around and this diagnosis hit and I was telling some people about it and I was.

Speaker 2:

It was kind of a roller coaster of how I felt each day I'm dealing with it a lot better now and I can just talk through it normally, but at the time it was a little tough to talk through and so I thought you know what? I just need to record this. I need to record what I need to sit down and just say it and record it. And I did and I turned it into episode one and it's a prostate cancer road to recovery. It's on YouTube, it's on Spotify, it's on iHeartRadio, Apple, it's on all the normal podcast stuff, but I primarily publish for YouTube.

Speaker 3:

And.

Speaker 2:

I've done. You know that first one's just kind of. I got a lot of good engagement, a lot of good feedback and I met a couple new people Harry Ian from Australia, and he's two years ahead of me. He's been, he's going through this journey and he just last month just eased off. They kept him on the ADT for two years, so they just eased him off last month and so he's climbing back up and he's holding his breath, hoping his PSA stays low, and so he and I start chatting. And then I just met a bunch of good people through this and so I did another episode and then another, and then I said, ok, I've had this little plan on that. When I sat down and did that first one, I was like, if I'm going to do this, what is my goal, what am I going to try and talk about? And I realized it was too much for one video, so that's why I decided to break it up into a podcast. There's still a bunch of people I want to talk to.

Speaker 2:

My sister-in-law went through breast cancer several years ago and prostate cancer and breast cancer are very similar because they're both hormone-fueled cancers and so there's a lot of similarities in what you do in the treatment and she was able to do a different treatment. She was able to do the surgery, and so I want to get her on there and do an interview. My brother had cancer on his neck. We'll talk about that. I just had an interview Friday, two days ago, with a friend from work who went through prostate cancer 12 years ago and then, because of my diagnosis, he was like you know what? I haven't checked my PSA levels. They removed his prostate 12 years ago, but that doesn't mean that you will always get a recurrence. So that's what sucks about prostate cancer is you get it and you're cured, but you're cured for so long until you get it again, because all it needs is one cell, one prostate cell, not scraped off of the bottom of your bladder or something. And sure enough, he went and got his PSA tested and it was slightly elevated again.

Speaker 3:

So they waited.

Speaker 2:

They did another test and they waited. They did another test and then they were referring to urologist and they're like yep you have cancer again.

Speaker 2:

And so he's going through this again and he wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been doing this. So a lot of people are getting their blood checked. A lot of people are getting their PSA tested. Most of them are good stories, like yours. Most of them are coming back.

Speaker 2:

I'm getting lots of texts saying, hey, it came out at 0.8. Hey, got it back, it's 0.6. And then this one you know, he just came back higher. So he's going to deal with. He's got to decide whether he can do radiation, whether he's going to do ADT, whether he can do both. But once again he's facing this and it just sucks. So I like doing this. I've done, was he? I think this was episode nine or episode 10. I've done nine or 10 episodes so far and we're going through a gambit of not just my treatment and my diagnosis, but what are the other options and why would somebody choose those? I've got an episode I'm just trying to schedule with my doctor. I want to sit down with my radiation oncologist and get some right from the doctor info for people to. You know, this is what you know, these are the questions people are asking and have him answer those. I think that'll be good.

Speaker 2:

So I think overall, it's really good.

Speaker 1:

No, it is good, and I've been listening and I've been encouraging others to listen, especially people that are in our age group. You know that it is important. There is a history of cancer in my family. I don't believe it was prostate cancer, I guess. Actually, I had a grandfather who had prostate cancer, but that's not the cancer that killed him, because it ended up in his colon, I believe, and so there was other things going on there. But it does make it again, like I mentioned before, it makes it top of mind, especially for those of us who have crossed the 50-yard line. Let's just say, and yeah, I want to thank you, jason, for what you're doing for bringing awareness to cancer. The last thing I want to ask you about is because, obviously, the mission of Hope Town Hero Outdoors is mental health awareness, and so tell me about the mental health aspect of what you're going through and what you're doing to keep yourself in check.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because I'll tell you I wasn't always doing healthy things. It's easy to just sit on the couch in the dark and think about it and keep thinking about it, and that's not good. That's not a good loop to be in, right, I have to keep myself busy, I have to go after the things, and what sucks is, once the therapy starts, the motivation to do anything just goes away. So I am constantly just forcing myself to do things that I know I used to enjoy that I'm now not enjoying as much, but when I do the podcasts and I'm meeting people and I'm seeing that it's helping, that brings some of that motivation back. I'm just fighting against.

Speaker 2:

I'm basically fighting against a chemical issue, a chemical balance issue with my body, where that testosterone gives us the energy and the drive and the motivation and helps us think, clearly helps our short-term memory and all that's trashed and my body's trying to re-figure out how to do things, and so you have to do things in order to allow your body to figure it out. I dug an old hobby out of the closet. I don't know how well this is gonna show up. I used to make fishing poles and so I know you did a segment recently where you had some guys on there doing some fishing poles.

Speaker 2:

So I'm putting together this nine-foot casting rig for my brother to do some salmon fishing.

Speaker 3:

There you go.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, it'll be double guide feet and they'll have their base wrap. So it's got this base wrap underneath the guide feet so when the pole flexes it's not scratching the graphite. It's got a nice cushion there. It'll be a high-end pole. I do the writing. Of course. I do a lot of writing. I do leatherwork. Of course I don't have it. That's the one thing I'm trying to get back into that I'm having the hardest time going getting back into. You can see a lot of my supplies and stuff here, but I do like little bags. I got just need something for I tie flies.

Speaker 1:

So Now you made me a really nice knife sheath for my hunting knife.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah, thank you yeah yeah, I do little sheaths for knives and this one's for a skiver. I got a couple knife sheath project requests so I'm trying to get back into doing that stuff. One of the things I'm gonna do with the fishing poles. I bought a, so light blue is the color of prostate cancer awareness, so I've got a light blue blank.

Speaker 2:

Once I'm done with my brothers, I'm gonna do this light blue fishing pole and it's all blue. It's gonna be everything, the threads, light blue, everything on it is all prostate cancer awareness pole. And then at work, every year we have this. We support the United Way auctions and so I'm gonna donate that and some leather goods to give away to raise some money. And then, if that goes, if I'm able to build that pole I want to. What I wanna try and do is build another one or two of those and maybe raffle them off to raise some money for prostate cancer, for an actual prostate cancer charity.

Speaker 2:

But we'll say I don't know. The thing is you gotta plan for things, you gotta keep things your calendar, you have to have something to look forward to, because sitting on the couch in the dark is not something to look forward to, and one of my friends reached out to me for Minnesota. He lives up there in Zimmerman and he's like. He's like Stone. I used to go fishing with him up at Lake of the Woods every May and he's like Stone, you're going fishing with me.

Speaker 3:

It's like I don't know if I'm gonna be he's like I don't wanna hear it.

Speaker 2:

you're going fishing in May. I'm like hurry. So I guess I'm coming back out to Minnesota in May All right?

Speaker 1:

well, I expect to see you when you get here, you will, you will.

Speaker 3:

What's a good friend right there? Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely it is. We're rolling up around an hour here and so we're gonna start wrapping it up, and, as I listened to the Mike Rowe podcast, he always says this is when he lands the plane. I like that analogy. And so, andy, do you have any last questions or last words as we wrap up?

Speaker 3:

tonight. No, phil, I just wanna repeat your sentiment to Jason, like thank you for what you're doing and getting this awareness out there. I don't again, I'm only 34, but I'm getting close to that time when it's time for the oil check and all the PSA talk and I don't know anything about it and I don't know if I would be told about it. So I appreciate you spreading that awareness to me and then to your followers and the people you're meeting. So keep doing what you're doing. It's awesome work.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Thank you very much. I've turned out. I've got a YouTube channel you can watch to learn all you want.

Speaker 3:

There we go Next subscriber right here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, jason, any final words and you wanna pitch your podcast again or any other way?

Speaker 2:

people are gonna hold you up If you're a biological male, 50 or 40 year old, or even go get your PSA checked. Next time you check with your doctor say, hey, I just want my PSA checked and then trend it at least every year. That's important, hugely important. It would save so many lives if you just did that once a year.

Speaker 1:

That's all right, well, thank you. Thank you very much, jason, thank you Andy, and from all of us here at Hometown Hero Outdoors, just a reminder again we are here for mental health awareness. If you are struggling in any way, we have members that are assist, train, applied suicide prevention training and you can call anyone at any time. If you are unable to do that, the national hotline you can call or text 988 for suicide awareness. And so with that, I am Phil Ewart, along with Andy Kraft and Jason Stone. Have a great week, everybody. We'll see you next time, take care.

Speaker 2:

See y'all Love y'all.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to the Hometown Hero Outdoors podcast. For more information, visit our website at hometownherooutdoorsorg.

Speaker 3:

Course seal.

People on this episode

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Christopher Tetrault

Host
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Phil Ewert

Producer